Information on where gothic, or goth came from,
and what
I feel it means to myself.

My Thoughts & Feelings | What Is Gothic/Goth?
My Bad Experiences | A Very Good Website

~My Thoughts & Feelings~

To me Gothic is not just a look, or a feeling of sadness and depression all the time which it seems most people associate it with. Nor do I believe it has to be associated with a particular religion. Some would say Satanism is common among people that call themselves Gothic and sometimes it is, but a religion is not needed in order to have an interest in this topic.
I don't see Gothic/Goth as fitting an exact good, or evil scenario as far as it's intent. The person places the association with it, or makes it look bad or good themselves, in how they carry themselves within this subculture world. I myself don't feel unhappy in what I would consider my "Gothic" thoughts or feelings. To me Gothic is history, art, literature, movies, or just the thoughts in my head, of something "dark" I feel is beautiful, yet most would find to be completely the opposite. A warm, cloudy, perhaps rainy summer day. The sun is setting, the clouds filled with moisture seem to grow thin and a yellow glow from the setting sun seeps through giving it the perfect gloomy, yet beautiful effect. Perhaps a dark moonlit night, the stars shining as I sit alone listening to dark poetic music, can sometimes bring along lustful, erotic thoughts and fantasies that are pleasing to my mind. Don't get me wrong, I love my nice kayaking weather, but I can also see beauty within certain types of darkness.
Yes, you can express being who you are by what you wear, but very little of this has to do with the threads we have hanging off us, it's more so about being an individual, more opened than a robotic mainstream that condemns so much, or a society that sees someone with true individuality as a freak. One thing is for sure though, and that is to sit and criticize others for being a "poser" or a "fake" because you don't like their room name, or because they don't have black hair and talk about suicide all the time is stupid. How do you know what that person feels? How do you know what this person thinks? You don't know them, so then what makes you think you know all about them. To me one that likes to tell others how they are lame, or fake without knowing them makes them the most unrealistic people around, a monkey, perhaps a follower of the mainstream themselves when they think they are the ones so different. Get to know someone and drop the egotistical debates. There is no one definition to the word Gothic. Goth may have a place of origin, but Gothic and Goth are easily tied together. Below perhaps you will gather a better understanding of the subculture, and how it fits with us today.
The main room you may find me in would be "DarkGothicFeelings" under the "Life" section of the AOL Member Chatrooms. I do room hop often, most times just to observe. I don't talk in open rooms often, it keeps me away from the people I'd rather not be confronted with. I find that when people take the time to instant message me, they are more genuine. Feel free to do so if you wish to talk. I hope perhaps this answered any questions you may have had about my "Gothic" room and feelings on this topic.

If you want to keep up to date on perhaps my current feelings, check out my "DeadJournal".

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~What Is Gothic/Goth?~
~Within certain types of darkness, light can be found.~

For the people that speak out, and talk of how Gothic or Goth, has nothing to do with people today, and that people into the subculture don't know what they are talking about. After reading this, it should be easily seen how it can be applied today. Anything less, would just show a persons stubbornness, or an inability to see themselves in thinking something in an incorrect manner. People into this today, usually fit into some of the definitions the history of this topic can state, whether in it's form of a mysterious, dark, or barbaric appearance, an interest in this type of art or architecture, or someone into supernatural literature, and more. Instead of trying to sound all knowing and educated in a field where you choose to close your mind, perhaps you should expand and try to have more of an understanding for the other person. Or at least keep to yourself. I would not doubt if someday generations from now there will be more of this subculture written in educational books, beyond a book you buy online or at a subculture type store.
On this page I will try to clear up all this "What's Gothic?", "What's Goth?" chatter. We will take the words and try to dissect them some, to give some of you a better understanding on why or how these words are used in modern times and lifestyles. I guess there is room left open for some interpretation, but if you look close enough, you should be able to see and understand, that this word doesn't necessarily have one definition to it. It may have an origin, but as time goes on, many words in life, will take on more characteristics than just the origins definition. These are a couple words that have gone from being a tribe of people, to art, and into fictional stories. Any definitions below were taken from the Merriam-Webster dictionary, lets try to dissect it a little more, at least through my eyes. Will all this be a 100 percent factual? Probably not. Over so many years I would imagine it would be impossible for anything that's so old, to be known to an exact science. We can only do our best, using the information on such a subject, that we posses today.
Goth - a member of a Germanic people that overran the Roman Empire in the early centuries of the Christian era.
What religion is Goth or are Goths tied to?
None as far as an exact belief for every one. It seems more so open minded, but perhaps there was some core belief for most of them, who really knows for sure. I do find that this should clear up the question of "Do Goths worship the devil?" or "Is Goth/Gothic directly connected to Satanism?" It seems evident this is not true, they just happened to not have the Christian beliefs, perhaps this is why they were looked at as being "evil" or "satanic" since most Christians would be forced to say, that believing in any god other than their own, would be sin, and some hard-core bible thumpers would believe any other form of worship would be a tool of the devil. A bit of history is quoted below, that I attained from an online source, dealing with the history of this subject. Although only one source, I have read from many other sources, and these writings say about the same, as said in other texts.
"During the third and fourth centuries, there were large migrations of land-hungry Germans southward and westward onto the Rhine-Danube Frontier. The basic Germanic political structure was the tribe, headed by a chief who was elected for his ability as a war leader. It was these tribes that resulted in Rome's losing control of the great frontier. The Roman and Germanic cultures greatly clashed. The Germanic religion was polytheistic, their society was a warrior aristocracy, and finally their societal structure was a mobile one. By 370 AD, the tribe had become nations led by warrior kings. It was at this time that the Huns swept out of central Asia westward until they encountered two Germanic nations of Visigoths and Ostrogoths. This was the spark of many years of invasions and warfare that provoked the downfall of the Roman-controlled frontier. The following information describes some of the Germanic tribes such as Franks, Ostrogoths, Visigoths, Burgundians, Angles, Saxons, Ostrogoths, Vandals and Lombards."
Notice it says that the Germanic tribes or "Goths" had a polytheistic belief system. Which means they had beliefs in multiple gods. Quite a far cry from saying someone worships the devil, unless your a bible thumper of course. These beliefs could have even been intact during the BC era, or before Christianity was even around. It would be hard to truly specify, that all of them had the same beliefs, or hard to even dare say they were "satanic" in any way.
After reading the above, it is easy to see how Goths could be looked at as being barbaric, or dark in a sense. So now we move onto the word "Gothic."
Gothic - 1 a: of, relating to, or resembling the Goths , their civilization, or their language b : TEUTONIC, GERMANIC c : MEDIEVAL d : UNCOUTH, BARBAROUS
2 - A: of, relating to, or having the characteristics of a style of architecture developed in northern France and spreading through western Europe from the middle of the 12th century to the early 16th century that is characterized by the converging of weights and strains at isolated points upon slender vertical piers and counterbalancing buttresses and by pointed arches and vaulting
B: of or relating to an architectural style reflecting the influence of the medieval Gothic
3 - often not capitalized: of or relating to a style of fiction characterized by the use of desolate or remote settings and macabre, mysterious, or violent incidents
Now if you noticed, the word soon spread to what would be known as "Gothic architecture," which was also looked at in sort of a barbaric manner, and if you look at some old buildings built in such ways, and try to tell me it doesn't have somewhat of a dark, mysterious, or barbaric appearance, than I don't know what the fuck does. Funny that the Christian religion took in such an appearance for their places of worship. Maybe that's why some churches always look so cool.
Also, if you notice number 3 under the definitions of Gothic, you will see how the word or words (Goth, Gothic) was applied to fictional writings. Often these writings dealt with barbaric, mysterious, violent, or supernatural events. Not a far cry from what we know today as ghosts, and perhaps even immortal beings and monsters such as dracula, or the werewolf. Now, I would imagine after all this, most people would have to see the correlation between these words, from there beginnings, to the now present.
In this day and age, we have people walking around dressed in black, looking barbaric or mysterious, admiring the dark nature of things which can also be found in Goth/Gothic music, whether it be finding the beauty in death, the look on a persons face as they lay cold, still, peaceful, and breathless. Some may like the quiet, mournful, and resting feelings of a graveyard, and the art that lies at the head of a grave. Having a fascination for stories of ghosts, vampires, or children of the night. Having an intense love for scary looking structures, or statues. Admiring a gray rainy sky with the occasional golden glow of the sun as it cries to get through, leaving the day with a most beautiful darkened appeal. Perhaps some people have lustful thoughts that include mildly violent acts dealing with the shedding of blood in erotic actions. Some people may fit under all of these likes, or perhaps just one of them. This is what we refer to as "Goths" today or people into the "gothic subculture." Perhaps it is just the fantasy inside there head that ties them to what these words can mean. No one has to look a certain way, believe a certain way, have a particular religion, or do any particular acts to have an appreciation for some of this topic. I myself don't care to call myself or label myself a title. I simply say that I have an interest in the Goth/Gothic subculture. What I am trying to do here, is to help people understand where these couple words have come from, and how they have evolved through time. Not to just mean one thing, but to actually be a little more interesting than that, and evolve through time, to mean so much more, in which history has proved.

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~My "bad" experiences with other gothic-goth people, or people interested in this subject~

It's to bad that in my experiences, and ones where I was nothing but polite, so many people that seem to be into the goth/gothic scene are so rude. Matter of fact, I think I have met or seen more rude people under this interest than polite. Many seem to like this topic, because it takes them away from the mainstream, yuppie, preppy, stuck up, judging on trivial things or whatever you want to call it, type of lifestyle.

It's to bad that so many that want or are into the gothic scene are exactly becoming what they have tried so hard to escape from. Keeping up a front or a wall, or being cocky when asked the most simple of favors, or outright ignoring someone who asks a simple question. I have seen this in countless numbers of rooms, and have also had my own encounters with it. Remember that those who do this are no better than these mainstream monkeys that you claim to hate, and after reading this I am sure you will look back at your actions and know who you are and how you have treated others. For the most part I believe that these arrogant and rude people into the goth/gothic lifestyle are under 18. I don't see a reason why you have to be a certain age to be nice to somebody, but that's just me I guess.

Guys in this subject, many times seem to think if another guy talks to them then your gay, or if your a guy sometimes they think a fun way to show off is to debate philosophically with another in hopes to impress the girl in the room, or vice versa. This I would deem as a waste of time, or done by someone that has no better way to spend their time online.

If you read this and take it for a grain of salt, or not even that, that is fine. I just want people to be aware that in trying to escape from a lifestyle that is riddled with worthless people, try not to become what you can't stand yourself.

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~A very good website on what ~
Gothic/Goth can mean today.

I have been around the internet quite a bit and for many years. Recently I have stumbled across a website that explains a lot about people who are into the current goth or gothic scene and I agree alot with what is said here. In the FAQ section, I have found some of the best descriptions of what may currently describe someone that is into this scene. Yet this site is also being extremely open minded, and still allows people to be themselves and not have to follow an exact path as everyone else just to be considered a person true to his or her gothic interests. Below is an excerpt from the website, along with the link.

"Please don't get obsessed by fitting the label, truth be told that many people who are Goth
or who associate themselves with the scene don't call themselves Goths because they find it too limiting or find that others stereotype them based on that one label, rather than seeing the sum of the parts. Too often there are people that try too hard to fit the label and completely pass by the fact that being Goth is as much about being yourself and finding your own path rather than rigidly trying to fit the stereotypes."

Click here
to read
my poem
for death

"As I draw up my breath, And silver
fills my eyes. I kiss her still, For she will never rise."

"On my weak body,
Lays her dying hand. Through those meadows of Heaven,
Where we ran."

"Like a thief in the night, The wind blows so light. It wars with my tears, That won't dry for many years."

"Loves golden arrow at her should have fled, and not Deaths ebon dart, to strike her dead."

Click here
to read
my poem
for death

Lyrics to the background music in gray
and were written by the band My Dying Bride.

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